The Wiki for Tale 8 is in read-only mode and is available for archival and reference purposes only. Please visit the current Tale 11 Wiki in the meantime.
If you have any issues with this Wiki, please post in #wiki-editing on Discord or contact Brad in-game.
Difference between revisions of "Lets Fix Factions"
m (Adding English language flag using the "L" template) |
|||
| (11 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown) | |||
| Line 4: | Line 4: | ||
a) The friendly community and the non battle aspects. There is a good balance between competition and cooperation. The test of obelisk is a good example of that. You can choose your own style. You can respect a queue, or you can ignore it. You can even totally ignore the test. Generally (with the exception of body tests) you are not forced to do anything. | a) The friendly community and the non battle aspects. There is a good balance between competition and cooperation. The test of obelisk is a good example of that. You can choose your own style. You can respect a queue, or you can ignore it. You can even totally ignore the test. Generally (with the exception of body tests) you are not forced to do anything. | ||
| − | Why destroy the biggest asset of the game by, splitting it, into 3 pieces? Without provide ways to work around it? | + | Why destroy the biggest asset of the game by, splitting it, into 3 pieces? Without provide ways to work around it? That's the bummest decision ever made. If I like to play war games there are plenty of games out there to play. Please don't destroy the only one that I have found to be different the last 10 years. |
| − | As a non English speaker I read the word “faction” as “fraction”. The word faction was unknown to me. And it took me weeks to realize that it is actually a “faction”. But the word fraction is actually a better name. A faction is a fraction of the population. | + | As a non English speaker I read the word “faction” as “fraction”. The word faction was unknown to me. And it took me weeks to realize that it is actually a “faction”. But the word fraction is actually a better name. A faction is a fraction of the population. That's the essence. That’s the idea. You are not an Egyptian citizen anymore. You are 1/3 Egyptian. So in my mind that word is fraction not faction. I try to use the proper wording, but my hands type it automatically and have to go back and fix it. |
b) The 2nd unique element is the law system. Let’s use it to fix any issues! Let’s have ballots to see what people really like to do. This changes is killing the game. Let’s hear what the people say. | b) The 2nd unique element is the law system. Let’s use it to fix any issues! Let’s have ballots to see what people really like to do. This changes is killing the game. Let’s hear what the people say. | ||
| Line 12: | Line 12: | ||
This is not an against the change rant. The game needs changes. Changes are good. But there is no good in change for the change. Not all changes are good by definition. But f(r)actions is a really rapid change. Now we have some data about the effects that they create in the game. It’s now time to analyze it keep the good changes, and fix the bad effects. Time to hear what the large player base have to say. | This is not an against the change rant. The game needs changes. Changes are good. But there is no good in change for the change. Not all changes are good by definition. But f(r)actions is a really rapid change. Now we have some data about the effects that they create in the game. It’s now time to analyze it keep the good changes, and fix the bad effects. Time to hear what the large player base have to say. | ||
| − | == Notes | + | == Notes == |
# All numbers mentioned is for demonstration purposes. The exact numbers is open to discussion. | # All numbers mentioned is for demonstration purposes. The exact numbers is open to discussion. | ||
# I (talos) have some ideas that maybe is a fix to some issues. Let’s add yours and debate them. Let’s find a new balance like the Obelisk test. Let’s make the game fun again to everyone. To the people that like factions and to the people they don’t. And let’s make our collective intelligence and our voice heard. | # I (talos) have some ideas that maybe is a fix to some issues. Let’s add yours and debate them. Let’s find a new balance like the Obelisk test. Let’s make the game fun again to everyone. To the people that like factions and to the people they don’t. And let’s make our collective intelligence and our voice heard. | ||
| Line 19: | Line 19: | ||
== The good parts == | == The good parts == | ||
| − | Factions offer new ways to play the game. You may like to play the tribute game, and that can give to some people a mission to do | + | Factions offer new ways to play the game. You may like to play the tribute game, and that can give to some people a mission to do that's good. This proposal is not against factions. It just try to minimize their effect to people that like that type of play. |
One good effect is the research. It’s much better to be able to contribute at the research, than running to a remote region and get a bunch of skills that you may have no idea what is about. Also there was no reward to people that do research in old tales. | One good effect is the research. It’s much better to be able to contribute at the research, than running to a remote region and get a bunch of skills that you may have no idea what is about. Also there was no reward to people that do research in old tales. | ||
Let’s keep that, but there are some other ideas, that can replace or add to the current system. | Let’s keep that, but there are some other ideas, that can replace or add to the current system. | ||
| − | * If a player donate to open a specific tech, he/she get a priority in getting that skill. For example he/she can learn that tech 3 days earlier than others. | + | * If a player donate to open a specific tech, he/she get a priority in getting that skill. For example, he/she can learn that tech 3 days earlier than others. |
* Requirements to get an improved technology. This is for new players to get a feeling about Egypt progress. To learn improved brick rack and use it you have first to make 500 bricks in flimsy brick racks. Then you have to make 2K bricks in an improved rack, in order to get access to brick machines. | * Requirements to get an improved technology. This is for new players to get a feeling about Egypt progress. To learn improved brick rack and use it you have first to make 500 bricks in flimsy brick racks. Then you have to make 2K bricks in an improved rack, in order to get access to brick machines. | ||
| − | * In order to get a better feeling of what is need it to open a tech the player must pay a small and manageable tuition. This is also helps to learn what you learn in a uni run. For example to learn Basic Metal Treatment you must pay 1 gravel, 1 sulfur and 1 saltpeter | + | * In order to get a better feeling of what is need it to open a tech the player must pay a small and manageable tuition. This is also helps to learn what you learn in a uni run. For example, to learn Basic Metal Treatment you must pay 1 gravel, 1 sulfur and 1 saltpeter |
* '''Brain capacity''' This needs a lot of coding so lets consider it for the next tale. You have a limited brain capacity that can be increased in many ways. Doing chores, help in research, pass tests, learn skills from schools increase that. This limit the skills you can learn at a given month. This must limit your access to advanced tech, not basic ones. So you can learn some new skill and have time to play with. The next week you can learn a new tech or maybe 2 if you have a big brain. This idea needs a lot more thinking and discussion. | * '''Brain capacity''' This needs a lot of coding so lets consider it for the next tale. You have a limited brain capacity that can be increased in many ways. Doing chores, help in research, pass tests, learn skills from schools increase that. This limit the skills you can learn at a given month. This must limit your access to advanced tech, not basic ones. So you can learn some new skill and have time to play with. The next week you can learn a new tech or maybe 2 if you have a big brain. This idea needs a lot more thinking and discussion. | ||
| Line 31: | Line 31: | ||
Let's take a look back into the history of the game. What was the worst decision ever made that almost kill it? And lost many good players and a large percentage of population and never recovered after that? It was '''Levels'''. Wait, but levels is good and do no harm, so why this? | Let's take a look back into the history of the game. What was the worst decision ever made that almost kill it? And lost many good players and a large percentage of population and never recovered after that? It was '''Levels'''. Wait, but levels is good and do no harm, so why this? | ||
| − | No levels is a good feature as you can mostly ignore it and do what you like to do. Also it gives you things to do and some satisfaction. But it never enters in your way. Now at level 10 you get swimming and most skills and technologies. For example i build an art now in a remote area and still collects votes to pass. It will pass one day, and hope to do the same there with the rest of my art and thought buildings (if not any new change, like a law forbids me). But when levels was introduced, i wasn't be so cool. I was need levels to manage to get the swimming skill (level 21 if i remember). Now levels is ok and a good feature as i can mostly ignore it and do the things that i like to do. | + | No levels is a good feature as you can mostly ignore it and do what you like to do. Also it gives you things to do and some satisfaction. But it never enters in your way. Now at level 10 you get swimming and most skills and technologies. For example, i build an art now in a remote area and still collects votes to pass. It will pass one day, and hope to do the same there with the rest of my art and thought buildings (if not any new change, like a law forbids me). But when levels was introduced, i wasn't be so cool. I was need levels to manage to get the swimming skill (level 21 if i remember). Now levels is ok and a good feature as i can mostly ignore it and do the things that i like to do. |
| − | Let's take another great test. The test of obelisk. I have the option to battle, to wait patiently in the line, to build it after a few months when no one cares. Or i have even the option to totally ignore the test. Good design. Now lets look at the same test under factions. People are battling for control of my region. Good for them. But | + | Let's take another great test. The test of obelisk. I have the option to battle, to wait patiently in the line, to build it after a few months when no one cares. Or i have even the option to totally ignore the test. Good design. Now lets look at the same test under factions. People are battling for control of my region. Good for them. But that affects me! I can no longer ignore it. |
And that creates the thing that Egypt likes and hate most. '''Drama'''! Now i can bully a person and keep him outside the game by constantly take control of his region. I'am no longer feel safe if i'am targeting! (like because my opinions in this page). And right now even in my remote corners i hear rumors, which i have no idea if they are true or not (With faction you have access to a fraction of the drama). That region X is punished for helping region Y, that a player is bullied for accept in his guild people from other regions, etc. This is not going well. | And that creates the thing that Egypt likes and hate most. '''Drama'''! Now i can bully a person and keep him outside the game by constantly take control of his region. I'am no longer feel safe if i'am targeting! (like because my opinions in this page). And right now even in my remote corners i hear rumors, which i have no idea if they are true or not (With faction you have access to a fraction of the drama). That region X is punished for helping region Y, that a player is bullied for accept in his guild people from other regions, etc. This is not going well. | ||
| Line 51: | Line 51: | ||
--''Petis: Exchange DP with Elder, and it is the same thing. No big change EXCEPT! a DP could ban you from the game, an Elder doesn't have the same power, as she/he can only cast you out of the Faction. Factions are NOT the same as Public guilds, there are Many Public Guilds still around'' | --''Petis: Exchange DP with Elder, and it is the same thing. No big change EXCEPT! a DP could ban you from the game, an Elder doesn't have the same power, as she/he can only cast you out of the Faction. Factions are NOT the same as Public guilds, there are Many Public Guilds still around'' | ||
| − | --''Talos'': Elders seems that will be able to do | + | --''Talos'': Elders seems that will be able to do a lot more things that you wont be able to do in the future. Not just bans. As about region changes why not seek other ways? I have propose here an alternative and democratic way.Let's use our collective intelligence to find a better one. And lets have a possibility for playing outside factions if you choose saw and pay the price. |
We can't even build public works anymore. You can't make a guild building or structure public. Why not? Is there the possibility to have a production building that only an Elder can build and you have to chance to have it in your guild? Who knows? | We can't even build public works anymore. You can't make a guild building or structure public. Why not? Is there the possibility to have a production building that only an Elder can build and you have to chance to have it in your guild? Who knows? | ||
| Line 70: | Line 70: | ||
= Fixes = | = Fixes = | ||
Random ideas that needs better texting, and the reasoning behind them. Add yours. I try to keep all players happy with them. The changes try to support 3 play styles and a mixture of them: | Random ideas that needs better texting, and the reasoning behind them. Add yours. I try to keep all players happy with them. The changes try to support 3 play styles and a mixture of them: | ||
| − | # People that enjoy the region battles. Why not let them enjoy that; The more things a player can choose to do in the game the better. This is also makes the | + | # People that enjoy the region battles. Why not let them enjoy that; The more things a player can choose to do in the game the better. This is also makes the dev's happy. Let them be. |
# People that like to enjoy the game, and don't forced to deal with factions, more than the necessary minimum. | # People that like to enjoy the game, and don't forced to deal with factions, more than the necessary minimum. | ||
# Also people to take the hard path of having no boss and no leaders and become factionless. Why not enhance the game experience with a such option? | # Also people to take the hard path of having no boss and no leaders and become factionless. Why not enhance the game experience with a such option? | ||
| Line 82: | Line 82: | ||
=== Discussion === | === Discussion === | ||
| − | + | ''Why not guilds like BFG?'' | |
BFG is a good idea and if i keep playing the game i will consider joining. But these issues exists | BFG is a good idea and if i keep playing the game i will consider joining. But these issues exists | ||
| − | + | * Currently it have 26(?) members. If it become full it will get 256 members. So still 1 fraction of 1/3 of the community. Same percentage as fractions lol | |
| − | + | * It didn't solve the issue of lonely players that don't like to have many chats or new players that just join and seek help. I have no way to interact with them if i travel for herbs or mushies. It's a guild. It's not the same | |
| − | + | New players that comes online is broadcasted to the whole Region as it is now. This is actually a LOT better than it used to be.-Petis | |
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | * '''Traveling'''. It was good to visit LoR and say hello to emptyness. Or visit VoK and find a lonely herber. It's the meaning of traveling. Fell the different regions. | ||
I live in a turist area. Some come here and eat at mac donalds and drink coffee at starbucks. Why traveling then? Join a guild is like if i go abroad and eat gyros. Nope if i visit America i do visit Mac Donalds (ok maybe only once), if i go somewhere else i will seek the local tastes. That's traveling means. | I live in a turist area. Some come here and eat at mac donalds and drink coffee at starbucks. Why traveling then? Join a guild is like if i go abroad and eat gyros. Nope if i visit America i do visit Mac Donalds (ok maybe only once), if i go somewhere else i will seek the local tastes. That's traveling means. | ||
| − | + | ''What's wrong about chanceries ?'' | |
| − | Chanceries is one of the failed promises of the game. It was that bit of sugar to make the medicine go down and decide to join the game. Everyone thought that you build one and then have a chat. It's also a nice building to have. So i start gathering resources to build one. Stones was an issue as living without chats, i din't do | + | Chanceries is one of the failed promises of the game. It was that bit of sugar to make the medicine go down and decide to join the game. Everyone thought that you build one and then have a chat. It's also a nice building to have. So i start gathering resources to build one. Stones was an issue as living without chats, i din't do a lot of digs(one week before guilds expand it was madness without any single channel of communication). My choice so acceptable. Then i realize that i can't build it. Ok lets start working on gathering the resources, do some fishing and build one. But no wait! You must be officer in your fraction. Ok lets work on that. Ready to build now? No! You have to gain control of your region first. OK i do that battle once ok? NO! you have to do that again and again to keep control of your area. So sorry! No chats for you! |
== Democracy back == | == Democracy back == | ||
Let's get democracy back to our community | Let's get democracy back to our community | ||
Let's change the mechanics of joining a fraction. To join a fraction you have to gather signatures from fraction members. The same mechanism can be used to switch a fraction. | Let's change the mechanics of joining a fraction. To join a fraction you have to gather signatures from fraction members. The same mechanism can be used to switch a fraction. | ||
| − | Some mechanism will need it so that it will be harder and harder to switch fraction. For example increased number of sigs and increased time limit before you start gathering signatures again. | + | Some mechanism will need it so that it will be harder and harder to switch fraction. For example, increased number of sigs and increased time limit before you start gathering signatures again. |
Optionally negatives votes are permitted, with a negative vote count as double (and 3X, 4X next time) and the votes will be hidden. | Optionally negatives votes are permitted, with a negative vote count as double (and 3X, 4X next time) and the votes will be hidden. | ||
| − | Implementation: 1st time it can be the leadership initiation, or a separate procedure (I prefer the 2nd so a new player have time to find a friendly guild and home). The 2nd time it can be an option to any voting booth (maybe with some signature gathering first) the 1st week of an | + | Implementation: 1st time it can be the leadership initiation, or a separate procedure (I prefer the 2nd so a new player have time to find a friendly guild and home). The 2nd time it can be an option to any voting booth (maybe with some signature gathering first) the 1st week of an Egyptian month. |
Any ideas/other fixes? | Any ideas/other fixes? | ||
Idea: If a player switch fraction he/she forgets all skills learned | Idea: If a player switch fraction he/she forgets all skills learned | ||
| − | === Discussion about issue 1 | + | === Discussion about issue 1 === |
How new players choose they initial fraction | How new players choose they initial fraction | ||
| − | === Discussion about issue 2 | + | |
| − | How a player can change faction (the reasoning here is not learning new skills) | + | — Petis A new mentorship thing is on the way, that way we will have mentors on Welcome Island to help New players choose. |
| + | Though I can agree there should be some easy way for a new player to change faction early on, that isn't exploitable for "stealing" Techs. | ||
| + | Easiest would be for New players to be able to change once before their first 24 hours are up. But then they loose all techs learned at the Unis. | ||
| + | |||
| + | — Talos While we have to see the new system before we make conclusions, a battle for a new player on welcoming island for which faction he joins, sounds | ||
| + | not the best welcome and introduction to the Egyptian society. Imagine you into his position. Will you decide to leave the welcoming island or the game? | ||
| + | And as an old player what i like is to visit the main land, discover where some people are, where they set up their homes wand with who before decide. | ||
| + | Ok a possible way to use a probe trial to discover that, but do you like to pass the welcoming island torture twice ? | ||
| + | |||
| + | === Discussion about issue 2 === | ||
| + | How a player can change faction (the reasoning here is not learning new skills) | ||
| + | |||
| + | Easy, Ask an Elder of the faction you want to join, and tell them why you want to change. | ||
| + | I don't really see this as a problem right now. Yes, there are only 2 elders so only 16 invites right now, but that was due to a bug, Elders will pop up a lot quicker now so there will be sufficient invites. | ||
| + | |||
| + | And yes, it is a democracy, you vote for the elders, and they then decide. | ||
| + | Just like things work in RL, you vote for the people to represent you. | ||
| + | But sure, a way for a player to change faction by getting a lot of signatures sounds like a good idea as well. | ||
== Proposal: Multi-faction guilds == | == Proposal: Multi-faction guilds == | ||
| − | During the creation of a guild you have the option to make the guild multi-f(r)action. Any structure that belongs to that guild can be made accessible to all people of | + | During the creation of a guild you have the option to make the guild multi-f(r)action. Any structure that belongs to that guild can be made accessible to all people of Egypt. Existing guilds have an option of 3 weeks to decide if they like to go fractionless. |
Alternatively you can put a time limit and a maximum percentage of a specific fraction members to converted. | Alternatively you can put a time limit and a maximum percentage of a specific fraction members to converted. | ||
=== Reasoning === | === Reasoning === | ||
Let's say your guild work hard to build a gold mine. And you decide to share it with all Egypt. The only option is to give it to a person, and that person will make it public. Same issues with public kitchens, We saw that in digs now, but that issue will make public food hard in the future. The current scheme have the following issues | Let's say your guild work hard to build a gold mine. And you decide to share it with all Egypt. The only option is to give it to a person, and that person will make it public. Same issues with public kitchens, We saw that in digs now, but that issue will make public food hard in the future. The current scheme have the following issues | ||
| − | # Credits: All the guild work to build a facility, but | + | # Credits: All the guild work to build a facility, but that's not visible |
# Possible issues with future dpttr laws, a public facility is in danger | # Possible issues with future dpttr laws, a public facility is in danger | ||
Also this flag act as a "Declaration of Independence" for guilds like safari. | Also this flag act as a "Declaration of Independence" for guilds like safari. | ||
=== Discussion === | === Discussion === | ||
| + | ''If you build something Public, the only reason is you want the credit for it as a guild? | ||
| + | Cause that is the only way this is changed from now. | ||
| + | |||
| + | While there are issuses that need to be addressed with factions, this isn't one of them. | ||
| + | |||
| + | ''--Petis | ||
== Proposal: Respect the teachers == | == Proposal: Respect the teachers == | ||
There will be no punishment if you teach a player of not your faction a skill or tech. | There will be no punishment if you teach a player of not your faction a skill or tech. | ||
=== Discussion === | === Discussion === | ||
| − | + | Once your Faction have 3 Elders, they will start to be able to change this things as the Faction seem fit. -Petis | |
== Proposal: The people of Hinterlands == | == Proposal: The people of Hinterlands == | ||
| − | Any player can ask to leave a faction and become faction-less. A factionless player have 1 week to change opinion but the effects of his decision will be immediately applicable. A factioness people can’t learn from any Uni, but he/she can donate mats. Need to find a mechanism for seeds etc.. A factioness player can build anything anywhere, but not in the core regions, except if an event ( | + | Any player can ask to leave a faction and become faction-less. A factionless player have 1 week to change opinion but the effects of his decision will be immediately applicable. A factioness people can’t learn from any Uni, but he/she can donate mats. Need to find a mechanism for seeds etc.. A factioness player can build anything anywhere, but not in the core regions, except if an event (i.e. werewolf) or test demands otherwise. An outsider can still participate in pyramids, megas and waterlines. |
If a new tech becomes available he/she must wait 3 weeks more to get it. Same for new tests. The only way to learn something is to have someone to teach him. But the teaching lessons and the waiting time must be 50-25% less than that of faction members. They can also able to learn from many teachers and multiple skills at once (details need it) Also they have a little bigger brain capacity. Living in the wild force them to be easy learners | If a new tech becomes available he/she must wait 3 weeks more to get it. Same for new tests. The only way to learn something is to have someone to teach him. But the teaching lessons and the waiting time must be 50-25% less than that of faction members. They can also able to learn from many teachers and multiple skills at once (details need it) Also they have a little bigger brain capacity. Living in the wild force them to be easy learners | ||
=== Discussion === | === Discussion === | ||
| Line 137: | Line 163: | ||
All events must be open to all people of Egypt. Having the faction Elder decide who can participate in an event is not acceptable. | All events must be open to all people of Egypt. Having the faction Elder decide who can participate in an event is not acceptable. | ||
=== Discussion === | === Discussion === | ||
| + | This is just a misinterpretation from your side. This was not the case at all. So you should take this away -Petis | ||
= Alternative to faction implementation and ideas = | = Alternative to faction implementation and ideas = | ||
For the next tale, at least if this tale manage to survive the community separation and drama that factions create. | For the next tale, at least if this tale manage to survive the community separation and drama that factions create. | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{L|en}} | ||
Latest revision as of 04:16, 2 August 2018
Factions of Fractions
There are many mmo out there, but only one atitd. What make this game unique is
a) The friendly community and the non battle aspects. There is a good balance between competition and cooperation. The test of obelisk is a good example of that. You can choose your own style. You can respect a queue, or you can ignore it. You can even totally ignore the test. Generally (with the exception of body tests) you are not forced to do anything.
Why destroy the biggest asset of the game by, splitting it, into 3 pieces? Without provide ways to work around it? That's the bummest decision ever made. If I like to play war games there are plenty of games out there to play. Please don't destroy the only one that I have found to be different the last 10 years.
As a non English speaker I read the word “faction” as “fraction”. The word faction was unknown to me. And it took me weeks to realize that it is actually a “faction”. But the word fraction is actually a better name. A faction is a fraction of the population. That's the essence. That’s the idea. You are not an Egyptian citizen anymore. You are 1/3 Egyptian. So in my mind that word is fraction not faction. I try to use the proper wording, but my hands type it automatically and have to go back and fix it.
b) The 2nd unique element is the law system. Let’s use it to fix any issues! Let’s have ballots to see what people really like to do. This changes is killing the game. Let’s hear what the people say.
This is not an against the change rant. The game needs changes. Changes are good. But there is no good in change for the change. Not all changes are good by definition. But f(r)actions is a really rapid change. Now we have some data about the effects that they create in the game. It’s now time to analyze it keep the good changes, and fix the bad effects. Time to hear what the large player base have to say.
Notes
- All numbers mentioned is for demonstration purposes. The exact numbers is open to discussion.
- I (talos) have some ideas that maybe is a fix to some issues. Let’s add yours and debate them. Let’s find a new balance like the Obelisk test. Let’s make the game fun again to everyone. To the people that like factions and to the people they don’t. And let’s make our collective intelligence and our voice heard.
- This is still a work in progress. I present it here for an early feedback
- Feel free to add your ideas
The good parts
Factions offer new ways to play the game. You may like to play the tribute game, and that can give to some people a mission to do that's good. This proposal is not against factions. It just try to minimize their effect to people that like that type of play. One good effect is the research. It’s much better to be able to contribute at the research, than running to a remote region and get a bunch of skills that you may have no idea what is about. Also there was no reward to people that do research in old tales. Let’s keep that, but there are some other ideas, that can replace or add to the current system.
- If a player donate to open a specific tech, he/she get a priority in getting that skill. For example, he/she can learn that tech 3 days earlier than others.
- Requirements to get an improved technology. This is for new players to get a feeling about Egypt progress. To learn improved brick rack and use it you have first to make 500 bricks in flimsy brick racks. Then you have to make 2K bricks in an improved rack, in order to get access to brick machines.
- In order to get a better feeling of what is need it to open a tech the player must pay a small and manageable tuition. This is also helps to learn what you learn in a uni run. For example, to learn Basic Metal Treatment you must pay 1 gravel, 1 sulfur and 1 saltpeter
- Brain capacity This needs a lot of coding so lets consider it for the next tale. You have a limited brain capacity that can be increased in many ways. Doing chores, help in research, pass tests, learn skills from schools increase that. This limit the skills you can learn at a given month. This must limit your access to advanced tech, not basic ones. So you can learn some new skill and have time to play with. The next week you can learn a new tech or maybe 2 if you have a big brain. This idea needs a lot more thinking and discussion.
The bad parts
Let's take a look back into the history of the game. What was the worst decision ever made that almost kill it? And lost many good players and a large percentage of population and never recovered after that? It was Levels. Wait, but levels is good and do no harm, so why this?
No levels is a good feature as you can mostly ignore it and do what you like to do. Also it gives you things to do and some satisfaction. But it never enters in your way. Now at level 10 you get swimming and most skills and technologies. For example, i build an art now in a remote area and still collects votes to pass. It will pass one day, and hope to do the same there with the rest of my art and thought buildings (if not any new change, like a law forbids me). But when levels was introduced, i wasn't be so cool. I was need levels to manage to get the swimming skill (level 21 if i remember). Now levels is ok and a good feature as i can mostly ignore it and do the things that i like to do.
Let's take another great test. The test of obelisk. I have the option to battle, to wait patiently in the line, to build it after a few months when no one cares. Or i have even the option to totally ignore the test. Good design. Now lets look at the same test under factions. People are battling for control of my region. Good for them. But that affects me! I can no longer ignore it.
And that creates the thing that Egypt likes and hate most. Drama! Now i can bully a person and keep him outside the game by constantly take control of his region. I'am no longer feel safe if i'am targeting! (like because my opinions in this page). And right now even in my remote corners i hear rumors, which i have no idea if they are true or not (With faction you have access to a fraction of the drama). That region X is punished for helping region Y, that a player is bullied for accept in his guild people from other regions, etc. This is not going well.
Developers. There are many games out there, but only one atitd. Don't try to make this game a WoW clone without the killings. There are many games out there with better engines better graphics and more players. If i like a game like that i have many many options. But i don't. Many of us choose atitd and play it because it is not WoW. Please listen to the community and don't kill the game.
The ugly parts
Let's enter into the shows of a new player. A drama we had in the past was the conspiracy of old players. I don't support that, but for a new player we look like this. Now what factions do? They make that impression official. You have a quarry event with prices. Good. Why a new player can just go with some other new players and learn to quarry? Why it have to get an approved from his fraction Elder, which it wont given to him? Really. Why not?
--Petis: Only 5 teams from each faction was allowed in, though it was not the Elders of the Faction that decided who was to enter. It was the Special Event Chars that you were to talk to, if more then 5 teams were to signup, it would be a randomly selected.
--Talos During that time i had no regional chat, so i was in exile. So that was my impression of the event. The channels i had access at that time said always faction elder, faction elder, faction elder. If i had that impression, what a new player will fell? Hope you have right and can do events with minimal interaction with factions and faction official. But i believe that they are no guarantee on that. There will be no guarantee that the dev wont do it, or some faction pass a law to forbids you collect herbs in their area. But i try to be positive here. So i add a proposal to get a guarantee that none be able to do that to you in the future.
In order to switch region, or build a chancery in his home he/she have to beg an official to build it. Did that make him fell equal? Did he/she ever fell that the have a chance to become an Elder. Yes same possibilities and been a DP in other tales. Now DPs are mostly wise. The seldom use their powers. Now we have elders. That you can't ignore them. That they are more equal than you. At every tale we have do talks and talks about the DP issue. Actually we try many many times to limit their powers. Now seems that we gonna need the elders more and more. To do what? Build fraction buildings. Which is a fraction of what a public works guild was once.
--Petis: Exchange DP with Elder, and it is the same thing. No big change EXCEPT! a DP could ban you from the game, an Elder doesn't have the same power, as she/he can only cast you out of the Faction. Factions are NOT the same as Public guilds, there are Many Public Guilds still around
--Talos: Elders seems that will be able to do a lot more things that you wont be able to do in the future. Not just bans. As about region changes why not seek other ways? I have propose here an alternative and democratic way.Let's use our collective intelligence to find a better one. And lets have a possibility for playing outside factions if you choose saw and pay the price.
We can't even build public works anymore. You can't make a guild building or structure public. Why not? Is there the possibility to have a production building that only an Elder can build and you have to chance to have it in your guild? Who knows?
--Petis: The only thing that changed is that Guilds can't make things public, but players can. So it works exactly like before. HOWEVER! There is a problem with kitchens at digs etc. But the devs are working on fixing this
--Talos And i propose a fix for that. Now we we have that issue in the first time? When factions was announced, most people say, ok we will find workarounds around the rules as always do. But this small evil details reveals that they don't want us to be a friendly and sharing community as we are always been. They want us to constantly battle each outher, without offer us the path of peace and prosperity, for people that they don't like war games to follow.
Why not everyone be able to build that nice chancery in his/her garden? Why you need an official to build it?
--Petis: They want Chanceries to be something the community builds, and not solo persons. Just like the Essence of Harmonies.
--Talos: I like to build Essence of Harmonies and many other players do. The first one build is like that, but then every one builds. Right now I'am collecting like mad palm fronds to build one at home and don't have to travel. Let's hope i still be able to build it, and not be forbidden by some faction issue.
Developers: Safe the game from dying. Help new player fell that they are equal.
Fixes
Random ideas that needs better texting, and the reasoning behind them. Add yours. I try to keep all players happy with them. The changes try to support 3 play styles and a mixture of them:
- People that enjoy the region battles. Why not let them enjoy that; The more things a player can choose to do in the game the better. This is also makes the dev's happy. Let them be.
- People that like to enjoy the game, and don't forced to deal with factions, more than the necessary minimum.
- Also people to take the hard path of having no boss and no leaders and become factionless. Why not enhance the game experience with a such option?
The idea is every player will find what he/she enjoys to do in the game, and ignore the rest, as this game was always mostly be.
Region Chat
Let's have 4 hinderlands chats outside the core fraction regions. They will be open to fraction member. Existing fraction chats stay the same
Regional bonuses No need to change the regional bonus effects. People that like to compete still can. The faction that get the land benefits from it (maybe also make it to work in any people that do that activity there to encourage traveling?) But the people living there will not be affected. Chanceries and voting booths Anyone can build these structures anywhere, if they control the region or if they don't. Chanceries will never decay.
Discussion
Why not guilds like BFG?
BFG is a good idea and if i keep playing the game i will consider joining. But these issues exists
- Currently it have 26(?) members. If it become full it will get 256 members. So still 1 fraction of 1/3 of the community. Same percentage as fractions lol
- It didn't solve the issue of lonely players that don't like to have many chats or new players that just join and seek help. I have no way to interact with them if i travel for herbs or mushies. It's a guild. It's not the same
New players that comes online is broadcasted to the whole Region as it is now. This is actually a LOT better than it used to be.-Petis
- Traveling. It was good to visit LoR and say hello to emptyness. Or visit VoK and find a lonely herber. It's the meaning of traveling. Fell the different regions.
I live in a turist area. Some come here and eat at mac donalds and drink coffee at starbucks. Why traveling then? Join a guild is like if i go abroad and eat gyros. Nope if i visit America i do visit Mac Donalds (ok maybe only once), if i go somewhere else i will seek the local tastes. That's traveling means.
What's wrong about chanceries ?
Chanceries is one of the failed promises of the game. It was that bit of sugar to make the medicine go down and decide to join the game. Everyone thought that you build one and then have a chat. It's also a nice building to have. So i start gathering resources to build one. Stones was an issue as living without chats, i din't do a lot of digs(one week before guilds expand it was madness without any single channel of communication). My choice so acceptable. Then i realize that i can't build it. Ok lets start working on gathering the resources, do some fishing and build one. But no wait! You must be officer in your fraction. Ok lets work on that. Ready to build now? No! You have to gain control of your region first. OK i do that battle once ok? NO! you have to do that again and again to keep control of your area. So sorry! No chats for you!
Democracy back
Let's get democracy back to our community Let's change the mechanics of joining a fraction. To join a fraction you have to gather signatures from fraction members. The same mechanism can be used to switch a fraction. Some mechanism will need it so that it will be harder and harder to switch fraction. For example, increased number of sigs and increased time limit before you start gathering signatures again. Optionally negatives votes are permitted, with a negative vote count as double (and 3X, 4X next time) and the votes will be hidden. Implementation: 1st time it can be the leadership initiation, or a separate procedure (I prefer the 2nd so a new player have time to find a friendly guild and home). The 2nd time it can be an option to any voting booth (maybe with some signature gathering first) the 1st week of an Egyptian month. Any ideas/other fixes? Idea: If a player switch fraction he/she forgets all skills learned
Discussion about issue 1
How new players choose they initial fraction
— Petis A new mentorship thing is on the way, that way we will have mentors on Welcome Island to help New players choose. Though I can agree there should be some easy way for a new player to change faction early on, that isn't exploitable for "stealing" Techs. Easiest would be for New players to be able to change once before their first 24 hours are up. But then they loose all techs learned at the Unis.
— Talos While we have to see the new system before we make conclusions, a battle for a new player on welcoming island for which faction he joins, sounds not the best welcome and introduction to the Egyptian society. Imagine you into his position. Will you decide to leave the welcoming island or the game? And as an old player what i like is to visit the main land, discover where some people are, where they set up their homes wand with who before decide. Ok a possible way to use a probe trial to discover that, but do you like to pass the welcoming island torture twice ?
Discussion about issue 2
How a player can change faction (the reasoning here is not learning new skills)
Easy, Ask an Elder of the faction you want to join, and tell them why you want to change. I don't really see this as a problem right now. Yes, there are only 2 elders so only 16 invites right now, but that was due to a bug, Elders will pop up a lot quicker now so there will be sufficient invites.
And yes, it is a democracy, you vote for the elders, and they then decide. Just like things work in RL, you vote for the people to represent you. But sure, a way for a player to change faction by getting a lot of signatures sounds like a good idea as well.
Proposal: Multi-faction guilds
During the creation of a guild you have the option to make the guild multi-f(r)action. Any structure that belongs to that guild can be made accessible to all people of Egypt. Existing guilds have an option of 3 weeks to decide if they like to go fractionless. Alternatively you can put a time limit and a maximum percentage of a specific fraction members to converted.
Reasoning
Let's say your guild work hard to build a gold mine. And you decide to share it with all Egypt. The only option is to give it to a person, and that person will make it public. Same issues with public kitchens, We saw that in digs now, but that issue will make public food hard in the future. The current scheme have the following issues
- Credits: All the guild work to build a facility, but that's not visible
- Possible issues with future dpttr laws, a public facility is in danger
Also this flag act as a "Declaration of Independence" for guilds like safari.
Discussion
If you build something Public, the only reason is you want the credit for it as a guild? Cause that is the only way this is changed from now.
While there are issuses that need to be addressed with factions, this isn't one of them.
--Petis
Proposal: Respect the teachers
There will be no punishment if you teach a player of not your faction a skill or tech.
Discussion
Once your Faction have 3 Elders, they will start to be able to change this things as the Faction seem fit. -Petis
Proposal: The people of Hinterlands
Any player can ask to leave a faction and become faction-less. A factionless player have 1 week to change opinion but the effects of his decision will be immediately applicable. A factioness people can’t learn from any Uni, but he/she can donate mats. Need to find a mechanism for seeds etc.. A factioness player can build anything anywhere, but not in the core regions, except if an event (i.e. werewolf) or test demands otherwise. An outsider can still participate in pyramids, megas and waterlines. If a new tech becomes available he/she must wait 3 weeks more to get it. Same for new tests. The only way to learn something is to have someone to teach him. But the teaching lessons and the waiting time must be 50-25% less than that of faction members. They can also able to learn from many teachers and multiple skills at once (details need it) Also they have a little bigger brain capacity. Living in the wild force them to be easy learners
Discussion
Proposal: Free events
All events must be open to all people of Egypt. Having the faction Elder decide who can participate in an event is not acceptable.
Discussion
This is just a misinterpretation from your side. This was not the case at all. So you should take this away -Petis
Alternative to faction implementation and ideas
For the next tale, at least if this tale manage to survive the community separation and drama that factions create.